Can any one recommend an SEO company or a freelancer?

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oliflorence

New Member
Hello,
I was wondering if any one could recommend a good (Irish based) SEO company as we have a number of clients looking for SEO services. We use to offer some SEO services but no longer have the time, plus SEO has now evolved to a service of its own. Ideally a freelancer that could come into us in the office on regular basis and meet the clients would be great but I would consider a company for as long as they have a track record. You can PM if you would like.
 

paul

Ninja
Hi Oli & Blacknight, thanks for the mention. Sadly I'm not taking on work like this for the foreseeable future. Plus not being located where you are probably also wouldn't fit.

aside : One topic that has sometimes being pitched to me, is the one about reselling SEO services. The issue I see, personally, is that it's generally better for me to manage the client relationship, so someone selling or being the middle man really just ads a delays in projects. I tend to ask lots of questions, who is your typical customer, how much to they spend, want new products do you have, is there anything in particular you are trying to push via online, etc. I find it's better to work directly with the 'decision maker' and the programmer doing the changes, and if there is a layer in between it can really get frustrating.
 

newtown2

New Member
seo freelancer

Hello,
I was wondering if any one could recommend a good (Irish based) SEO company as we have a number of clients looking for SEO services. We use to offer some SEO services but no longer have the time, plus SEO has now evolved to a service of its own. Ideally a freelancer that could come into us in the office on regular basis and meet the clients would be great but I would consider a company for as long as they have a track record. You can PM if you would like.
Hi I was wondering are you still looking for freelance SEO work done? I do SEO freelance work and work at a keen price if you are interested let me know. Thanks.
 

link8r

New Member
I have to agree with Paul - reselling is a challenge. For a number of reasons.

Here's one:

This came up in a big project we've been working on and we quit
Also, there may be a conflict of interest. SEO is a strategy and not a checklist. Its too easy and lazy to want to distill things into yes/no when really its really more systemic. It may be that the SEO needs to advise the client and work at a peer level with the web designer. By outsourcing, you lose this - the web design agency will have one view. You may have offered 'SEO' but I'm sure if everyone in this thread tried to agree the same ideas, we'd have many differences. Your views as an agency suit you, and if you view the SEO as a vendor, you alter their ability to offer full impartial advice independent of the relationship with you
 

Johnny4B

New Member
Well as a Freelance SEO I must interject here and put this to bed from my very own experience , freelancers in SEO cannot be the middle man and must have a relationship directly within the client.

Wrong on so many merits, and generally the opinion of those who are stuck in "their" way of doing things ... (as its far from the first time I have heard it), I am quite proactive over in Moz and we always getting "the industry experts", generally it boils down a lot of the time to people trying to justify their extortionate pricing structure, as with these larger agencies.

I happen to freelance and currently my service is taken up by 3 Web Design Development Agencies, I have done this for near onf 6 years now, thankfully successfully and thankfully evolving as the many SEO practices require them.

To a certain degree I would act as an employee of theirs for an initial consultation with the client but for the rest of the campaign, I deal with the agency as opposed to the client.

Any further dialogue with the client is dealt with by the Web Design company, I tell them what I need, they then go get it. To be frank and honest, anyone carrying out a well structured plan should know well in advance what they need with regards to the clients involvement, and to be even more honest, after the initial "enthusiasm" phase, clients eagerness to participate soon drops off, leaving them generally painfully hard to extract information, so its usually best to gather it all very early in the business relationship, even if its for further down the road.

I also have direct SEO clients and I get results for both sets of customers. I don't see any significant improvement in the results with the customers who I deal directly with

I am not sure why anyone thinks that this does not work, or for some reason should not work ... and find it quite ignorant for anyone to claim it shouldn't when it seems neither have experience working like this, rather offering an opinion bases on how they conduct their business.

John
 

Satanta

New Member
Well as a Freelance SEO I must interject here and put this to bed from my very own experience...
Your own experience proves the case for you. It does nothing to prove the case definitely for everyone and does absolutely nothing to put this to bed. As someone who works with numerical data daily and (should have) an analytical mind I find it baffling that you would even make such a statement. Are you an outlier? Are you an exception? Does it work for you simply due to your style of working?

Wrong on so many merits, and generally the opinion of those who are stuck in "their" way of doing things ...
I'd say 90% of Freelancers in this (or any) country have carried out work remotely for large digital agencies. I know I have and I can guarantee that the clients results suffered as a result. It put unneeded hurdles into the implementation process, it stopped me having direct contact with the client to see where added value could be added, it stopped me providing input on how to gain advantages in other areas of the business (something that a client only gains with a close working relationship with a service provider) and as the Google algorithms have evolved (most significantly during the last year or two) it has become even more costly for a client to be held at arms length in this manner.

... (as its far from the first time I have heard it), I am quite proactive over in Moz and we always getting "the industry experts"...
I can't see any relevance to this comment at all other than to try and name drop Moz. Fair enough, but it looks very strange.

... generally it boils down a lot of the time to people trying to justify their extortionate pricing structure, as with these larger agencies.
Quite the opposite in a lot of cases. If and when I have done outsourced work, I'm obviously getting paid at a level I'm happy with and at a level I would have done the work for directly (in many cases this is because I can do a specific project in a far faster timeline that others would manage so the theoretical and actual €/hour are significantly different for me). You can be damn sure that the agency outsourcing the work is taking a nice chunk on top of that price to cover their account manager fees, their administration fees, their marketing fees for landing the client and all of the other overheads they're covering. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, it's simply business, but tying my hands and having me work at arms length is costing the client significantly more than if they had come to me directly. So saying the reason people say that working directly is more beneficial is simply to justify pricing structure is clearly false in at least some cases.

Any further dialogue with the client is dealt with by the Web Design company, I tell them what I need, they then go get it. To be frank and honest, anyone carrying out a well structured plan should know well in advance what they need with regards to the clients involvement, and to be even more honest, after the initial "enthusiasm" phase, clients eagerness to participate soon drops off, leaving them generally painfully hard to extract information, so its usually best to gather it all very early in the business relationship, even if its for further down the road.
I think this says it all and sums up the difference in views between you and Paul and I. It simply isn't possible for me to work from a "well structured plan" that covers every possible base for every possible client. Each of them is unique, so no plan can ever cover all of the potholes and potential that each individual client will bring to the table. It's only through the dialogue and engagement that working closely with a client brings that each problem can be resolved fully and each opportunity can be maximised fully. Yes, a structure and a plan can give you a great start and ensure both you and the client start off with steps in the right direction. However once you start the journey there are just too many directions that the various roads can take for any plan to effectively cover them all without day to day tweaking of that strategy. This might not be how you work, but to suggest that any of us that do work in this way are wrong is clearly false. I know which of the two approaches I'd view as stuck in the past, antiquated and in the worst interest of the client.

I am not sure why anyone thinks that this does not work, or for some reason should not work ... and find it quite ignorant for anyone to claim it shouldn't when it seems neither have experience working like this, rather offering an opinion bases on how they conduct their business.
I find the irony in this statement hilarious to be honest. So it's ok for you to insult and belittle the other posters by offering your opinion based on how you conduct your business, but it's wrong if they do it? Glad we cleared that up.

It's not a case of "this does not work". In many cases the client will still get positive results. It's simply a case of the results suffering due to the provider having one of their hands tied behind their back due to the lack of direct client contact. It hurts the performance, it doesn't kill it.
 

Johnny4B

New Member
Firstly the Moz reference, I see how you might think that, it certainly was not “name dropping” … Actually I aint sure what sort of name dropping it would be unless I am on their staff or endorsed by them, which is not the case in either situation, it was just trying to reaffirm that point that “freelancers don’t work” and how many time I have heard it before, I don’t post here and my post count was 0 at the time of your reply, actually this thread infuriated me so much, it provoked me to register to reply …

I have never and would never suggest to anyone how they should work. You seem to feel you can force your opinion or dare I suggest even dictate with confidence that your opinion is correct, which is truly bizarre and all together a little autocratic. Seriously, read back what you posted, can truly stand over that opinion and everything you say ?

Additionally, and this is semantics but none the less important to me, I feel I need to justify my post and not be quoted incorrectly, on more than one occasion I used the word “generally”, now you seem to have a degree of intelligence about you ,so I won’t patronise you and explain what that word means …

Not everything I said was set in stone, it was all based on my opinion, and that of the many other Freelancers carving out successful careers within the industry, even as tough as it is these days !!!

For you to suggest that how I conduct my work is somehow antiquated and is in the worst interest of the client, well it reeks of the opinion of an egotistical ass hole to be honest.

How dare you suggest without knowing me that the work I do on behalf of paying clients is somehow inferior to the work of you … I take my responsibility to customers extremely seriously, I am appreciative that the work I may conduct could help make or break a company, now I appreciate that may sound a little dramatic to you, but it has been the case for some smaller companies I have worked for, I have worked for companies who have struggled to justify my costing’s, but do it with the hope that the work I do on their behalf can drive traffic and increase sales …..

There is nothing an agency can do that I cannot do …I have access to the same tools we all use, and more significantly I have access to my intelligence and years of experience. I have homed my skillset though lot of trial and error, I adapt accordingly, I am very passionate about the work I do, I actually enjoy the work I do, I love freelancing, make no mistake about it, it aint easy, I was still working last night when I posted my initial post, I never ever have 9-5 days, I work every Saturday and sometimes Sundays, I am constantly at my desk , and yet I have to try and make time for a wife and two kids. But that’s the choice I have made and I love it, at 37 years of age I wouldn’t have it any other way .. yes I hoped one day I might have my own small business and employing people, it didn’t work out like that and naturally my freelancing turned out initially to be a stop gap to what I do on a daily basis.

As for how I conduct my work, you seem to think I am rigid in my approach due to the fact I mentioned initially I have a structured plan. Without structure in any approach you won’t succeed is this game, so much of what I do is repetitive but yet imperative work, of course each client is different, of course we need to be creative, but don’t tell me somehow I am doing the customer wrong cause I don’t deal directly with each and every one.

I merely registered on here to reply to your claims that it’s not in the best interest of the customer to work with a freelancer that conducts the work on behalf of the clients contact. I accept dialogue is key, I insist on being at every initial consultation with a customer, I am able to extract a lot of what I need them, or at least leave the client with a checklist of information, data etc we need to collate over the coming weeks / months. I communicate with my customer who then communicate with their client, I aint working with ignoramus morons, these are savvy guy who are able to communicate with their customer, and even at that is not set in stone ,I can still speak with the client even though technically they aren’t my customer but I must do it under the guise of the companies name I work on behalf off.

You really need to have a look at your opinion of your fellow counterparts within your industry, it’s quite shameful you can be so brash and disrespectful to a significant proportion of the community.

I don’t even know you but I have a dislike toward you based solely on your arrogant, ignorant opinion (and be grateful they are the only adjectives I am using), which is truly outstanding cause without being arrogant myself, you probably couldn't meet a more grounded chap then myself.

I appreciate my initial opinion may not have read well in your eyes, it’s quite obviously the case. I stand by what I said though, it’s an ignorant view you took, a view you base on your opinion rather than on your experience, and if I somehow thought I misunderstood what you said, your reply done nothing but reaffirm that.

We could continually go tit for tat here, but I neither have the will or the want to do so. I have never questioned your ability to conduct work, for all I know you could be a guru, and good for you if you are. I aint, I am not the foremost expert in the UK and Ireland, I guess I am far from it, but I tell you one thing I can say with confidence, I would happily put my abilities up against any Agency, they have nothing I do not have as a freelancer bar a brand and the ability to charge a lot more (and probably a few more heads) … their ability to have a direct relationship with a customer DOES NOT give them a competitive edge over me, and it certainly does not give their client a more valued, service than what I provide with customers I work on behalf off.

Regards
John
 

Satanta

New Member
Actually I aint sure what sort of name dropping it would be unless I am on their staff or endorsed by them, which is not the case in either situation...
That was the bit that had me scratching my head to be honest ;)

... it was just trying to reaffirm that point that “freelancers don’t work” and how many time I have heard it before...
Just to clarify, freelancers work extremely well. It freelancers working through a 3rd party, so cut off from the client, that both Paul and I (and many of the others you disagree with) don't like and have negative experiences of.

I don’t post here and my post count was 0 at the time of your reply…
I think you're mixing me up with Paul, David or one of the other posters. No matter, but said I'd mention it.

You seem to feel you can force your opinion or dare I suggest even dictate with confidence that your opinion is correct, which is truly bizarre and all together a little autocratic. Seriously, read back what you posted, can truly stand over that opinion and everything you say ?
Absolutely. I completely stand over every word of it. I have no wish or interest in trying to force my opinion on anyone else nor say that my opinion is the correct one. However it is my opinion and I'm happy to share it and will stand over it until I have reason to change my mind on any aspect of it. I'm not saying my opinion can't be changed, obviously anything that isn't based on fact can change and evolve over time, but I've seen nothing that would possibly change my opinion to date.

Not everything I said was set in stone, it was all based on my opinion, and that of the many other Freelancers carving out successful careers within the industry, even as tough as it is these days !!!
I should point out that it's certainly not "that of the many other Freelancers", as I'm one of those. I'm not sure what business structure Paul is using at the moment, but he could easily be considered as part of that group regardless of the structure employed too.

It's probably also worth pointing out that nobody is saying that the way you work is 'wrong'. Paul said it was frustrating for him, David said it was a challenge (which it certainly is, on either the side of outsourcing or being outsourced to) and I gave my specific experiences of it which lead to me no longer accepting outsourced work in that manner simply to show that the discussion had not been put to bed (and as a direct result of your assertion that these comments were coming from people that have never worked like this and simply providing a breakdown of the way they work as the 'right way'). That isn't saying "anyone who doesn't do it the way I do it is completely wrong", it's me pointing out that you saying anyone with an opinion different to yours isn't wrong.

For you to suggest that how I conduct my work is somehow antiquated and is in the worst interest of the client, well it reeks of the opinion of an egotistical ass hole to be honest.
Given that the comment was 100% in reference to "Wrong on so many merits, and generally the opinion of those who are stuck in "their" way of doing things ..." I'm not sure how to respond to that one without really looking like a jerk. :p

How dare you suggest without knowing me that the work I do on behalf of paying clients is somehow inferior to the work of you …
I'd apologise profusely if I did anything of the sort. However, I didn't. I said the work I produce when held at arms length suffered greatly. I said I got poorer results (of which there is no question) and at a higher cost to the client (as I know the 3rd party had a specific markup on all fees) when working in this manner. I can do a direct comparison of the work I do under the differing conditions. I have absolutely no knowledge of you, your skills or your work so wouldn't and haven't suggested that my work is better than yours in any way. I'm not even suggesting my way of working with direct contact is better than yours of working remotely, I'm only saying it is better for me.

There is nothing an agency can do that I cannot do …I have access to the same tools we all use, and more significantly I have access to my intelligence and years of experience.
Completely agree.

I'm not championing agencies at all. I'm saying that being forced to work remote of a client due to outsourced work from an agency can (not always 'will') hurt performance. It sounds like you had enough rope with the web dev agencies you worked with to avoid these issues, which is fantastic, or completely avoid them. That, however, isn't always the case.

You really need to have a look at your opinion of your fellow counterparts within your industry, it’s quite shameful you can be so brash and disrespectful to a significant proportion of the community.

I don’t even know you but I have a dislike toward you based solely on your arrogant, ignorant opinion (and be grateful they are the only adjectives I am using), which is truly outstanding cause without being arrogant myself, you probably couldn't meet a more grounded chap then myself.
Ignoring the fact that I'm fully confident that a significant proportion of the community wouldn't give a second thought to my opinions regardless of what they might be, I'd love to know how I've been brash, disrespectful, arrogant or ignorant here? I shared my own personal experiences to illustrate that the topic wasn't black and white and most certainly hadn't been 'put to bed'. I'm not and never have made any broad sweeping statements that anyone working in a specific manner is doing a client an injustice (whether that be regarding working through a 3rd party or any other situation) nor have I insulted anyone. As for forming a dislike of me? Fair enough, that's your decision to make. I might suggest normal forum etiquette of "attack the post, not the poster" would be more appropriate and constructive, but I'm easy.


... it’s an ignorant view you took, a view you base on your opinion rather than on your experience, and if I somehow thought I misunderstood what you said, your reply done nothing but reaffirm that.
This one confuses me to be honest. My entire post is based on personal experience. I gave my opinion backed up with the experiences that led to me forming it. I'm not sure how that could be viewed as ignorant, unless you mean the way it was put forward was in an insulting manner? As for the latter part, again, that was another poster.
 
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