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beep

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If you are lucky, in this business, you learn from the mistakes of others.

Everyone thinks the same thing.

That's the flaw in your plan. Ideas are the easy part but your time is limited. As the directory grows, you will find yourself spending more and more time on it. The human element is that thing that causes most directories to fail - they grow to such a size that editorial control is lost.
who said i havent learnt from the mistakes of others
i thought it was obvious that a lot of irish directories had stagnated or died completely
i can see plainly what not to do by just looking at some of them
i am also aware of directories, what they can grow to and what time is needed to build them
Well the whole emphasis of the thread and your selling point is that it is an Irish web directory. That would automatically put it in the directory market.
it started as an irish directory
it now features other sections and will have more on completion
i can compete in the directory market but am not limited to only offering a directory.
the web directory is the part i started this thread about..offering inclusion before relaunch

True. I just don't know if your unique selling point is unique enough.

Regards...jmcc
okay you don't need to worry ill deal with that

never have i heard so many negative and patronising comments
my directory is not threatening to anyone here
and how can someone comment on it with such great authority when they dont even know the url?

i dont know what this is but this is definately not the irish webmaster forum i was looking for
 

jmcc

Active Member
who said i havent learnt from the mistakes of others
I believe you did: "ive no idea what they did right or wrong and again i dont really care".

i thought it was obvious that a lot of irish directories had stagnated or died completely
That's the 18 month rule in effect. There has even been some .ie graverobbing with old directory type domains being reregistered and having a dmoz Irish slice and Adsense stuck on them.

i am also aware of directories, what they can grow to and what time is needed to build them
I don't know if you have any understanding of what a high-traffic, large directory involves. Most Irish web directories are comparatively small.

never have i heard so many negative and patronising comments
You are talking to web developers not end users. Web developers by reason of their continued existance are going to be wary of every new directory offer that comes along. Many of them will have seen this kind of thing before.

my directory is not threatening to anyone here
How do you know? If your directory is as good as you think it is, it may be a threat.

and how can someone comment on it with such great authority when they dont even know the url?
And are you sure of that?

i dont know what this is but this is definately not the irish webmaster forum i was looking for
If you want fawning admiration then I suppose it is the wrong place. If you want feedback from people who have a clue, then it is the right place.

Regards...jmcc
 
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beep

Guest
I believe you did: "ive no idea what they did right or wrong and again i dont really care".
Ive no idea as regards to the examples you give.
I can see as a whole how they have failed and I dont need to continually pour over those facts.

That's the 18 month rule in effect. There has even been some .ie graverobbing with old directory type domains being reregistered and having a dmoz Irish slice and Adsense stuck on them.
I know old directory domains have been bought up and used in this way.
Your position is so negative in that nothing can possibly work because everything that comes along now will follow a pattern of the original directories and hence be gone in 18 months.

I don't know if you have any understanding of what a high-traffic, large directory involves. Most Irish web directories are comparatively small.
Whatever your idea of small or large is I dont know.
If I can make a revenue stream from my small or large directory then I have accomplished what I set out to achieve.
You are talking to web developers not end users. Web developers by reason of their continued existance are going to be wary of every new directory offer that comes along. Many of them will have seen this kind of thing before.
I have dealt with webmasters in forums for a long time and I have not had to defend something like this before.
You are not wary because you do not want to accept the idea at all
You dont want to accept thats up to you but not all webmasters have the same attitude as you are showing believe me.
How do you know? If your directory is as good as you think it is, it may be a threat.
I cant see how a site which gives you a link on a page of Irish related content as a threat to an Irish site.
Unless you have a directory owner yourself and are really so worried about another one (which charges)

And are you sure of that?
Why would you wait until now to say you had already seen the site?
If you want fawning admiration then I suppose it is the wrong place. If you want feedback from people who have a clue, then it is the right place.
I was giving webmasters a chance to get linked on my site.
I do not need anyones approval for what I am doing. I have learnt that there is always someone who has a problem with something and if you constantly seek approval for your project you will never start it.

I know forums where webmasters have a clue also and I do not see this type of response.

Thanks to you and formentioned for trashing a thread which was simply to ask for inclusion.
I am not going to continue to try and defend what I am doing to you endlessly, I dont need to.

This is not the forum for me.
Good luck with your sites.
 

RedCardinal

New Member
Well, that's really your loss. If you can find another board with the kind of Irish-related web knowledge present here then well done.

I doubt it though. Best of luck with your project.
 

grandad

Member
ive no idea what they did right or wrong and again i dont really care
im doing my own thing with my eyes open to the work involved in promoting and maintaining something like this

and again..whats the attitude
i know about directories and what they entail


of course traffic is the factor
but quality traffic is more important to me
ill spend more time on making it relevant than placing unrelated links/content just for the sake of it
And again i dont need to break into any directory market..its part of an ongoing project to bring irish related content and services together.
I dont think a directory on its own is enough but it needs a different slant or added features and thats what im building
I started a directory back in the 90's and it was very successful [irishlynx.com]. It was one of a very small number of Irish directories out there. If Adsense or whatever had been around I would have made a killing.

It started as a very small site, but eventually grew to around 30,000 links.

It was a nightmare! It took a lot of time to update [even with a content management system] because of the spurious requests that used to come in. There was also the constant maintenance of removing dead links and replacing URLS as people switched from iol.ie/~whatever to their new domain. [I know the latter isn't as much a problem nowadays, but it was then].

Leastwise, I think I am slightly more qualified to talk about running directories :rolleyes:

Unless you are going for a very tight niche that doesn't already exist you are going to have a big job on your hands. If you are going for that tight niche, then you are going to have a small customer base, and correspondingly low income.

As directory usage is tending to drop against the onslaught of search engines, your directory is going to have to offer something quite remakable.

One comment of yours that concerns me is "ive no idea what they did right or wrong and again i dont really care". Why don't you care? Do you not want to learn from the mistakes of others?
 

jmcc

Active Member
Ive no idea as regards to the examples you give.
I can see as a whole how they have failed and I dont need to continually pour over those facts.
Right - to explain it simply:
Doras failed because the management were idiots who did not see how the web had shifted. The early web was directory driven. By the late nineties, it was shifting to a search engine driven model where directories became less and less relevant. Doras decided, in desperation, to charge (rip off) users for inclusion. The directory went dot.bomb shortly afterwards.

I know old directory domains have been bought up and used in this way.
Of course - most of them are quite obvious ones.

Your position is so negative in that nothing can possibly work because everything that comes along now will follow a pattern of the original directories and hence be gone in 18 months.
It is based on experience. If the directories do not offer something different, then they will stagnate and die.

Whatever your idea of small or large is I dont know.
Small: 100K and below. Medium: 2 million. Large: Greater than 5 million.

I have dealt with webmasters in forums for a long time and I have not had to defend something like this before.
Then you obviously haven't mentioned a project like this to them.

You are not wary because you do not want to accept the idea at all
What idea? Running a directory? Charging for inclusion?

You dont want to accept thats up to you but not all webmasters have the same attitude as you are showing believe me.
They have. It is just that they are more diplomatic and don't bother telling you.

I cant see how a site which gives you a link on a page of Irish related content as a threat to an Irish site.
It isn't. But don't present it as a service to the Irish internet when in reality it is only a moneymaking opportunity for yourself.

Why would you wait until now to say you had already seen the site?
Well I wasn't sure that I did. The site I saw had very little content and sections were missing.

I was giving webmasters a chance to get linked on my site.
Not quite. You were trying to get webmasters to pay you to include their sites on your site. That's not the same as the free-inclusion provided by other directories.

Thanks to you and formentioned for trashing a thread which was simply to ask for inclusion.
You were touting for business rather than offering inclusion - a discounted fee rather than free inclusion.

Regards...jmcc
 

Gavin

New Member
Well, its good to see some topical discussions on here even if Beep thinks you guys are giving him a hard time about directories (which he shouldnt).
 

grandad

Member
Well, its good to see some topical discussions on here even if Beep thinks you guys are giving him a hard time about directories (which he shouldnt).
I have to keep reading this thread from start to finish to keep track of what it's all about.

Basically, Beep comes on and says he[she?] has a directory, and says little or nothing about it [no links or anything] other than we can get listed cheaply. And what is cheap? Is it €5? Or €500? And what is the normal price? And what are we getting for our money?

And then Beep gets a little p*ss*d off when we start making comments.

C'mon Beep. Give us the flaming URL so we can see what the hell we are talking about.

At least "Internet Register Ireland" let me see their site before trying to con me for €985.
 

grandad

Member
so is Beep hoping for high volumes of traffic because people will think the domain is associated with Welcome to Ireland.ie - Let's Play! or Welcome to Ireland.ie - Let's Play!
I hope not.

The following discoverireland domains are all registered - .ie, .com, .net, .org, .info, .eu, .biz, .co.uk, .mobi and .tv.

I don't want to dampen Beep's enthusiasm, but I can't see anything there that makes it any different from hundreds of others. I googled "discover ireland" - 3,330,000 replies. Why are people going to choose .net?

As I have said before, the directory doesn't have the place on the Web that it used to. I find that directories have a rather arbitrary hierarchy so it can be very difficult to find what you are looking for, and it generally takes many clicks to find the information.

So if, for example I am looking for my local library, I am more likely to google for "bray library". I'll find it [or an obvious link to it] straight away.

The only real value to me is in SEO. Listings in high ranking directories are good, but why is discoverireland.net going to be high ranking?
 

grandad

Member
Listen Gramps, pipe down would you...

Your just like bloody jmcc - bringing the whole mood down here :rolleyes:
Oh! Bloody Hell!!

OK. It's a fantastic concept. I have cancelled my cheque to Internet Register Ireland and am taking out 200 links in the new directory. And the sun is blazing down outside and I've just won the lottery.

Now I am going off to create some modern art out of my Zimmerframe by bending it into weird shapes. Happy days.
 

grandad

Member
Always has to be one extreme to the other... think of the poor German children that are now going to go hungry :(
OK. I've posted off my lottery winnings. I am back to the paltry pension. Bang goes my holiday next year. Herself has to go back on the game. Now are you happy?
 

Packet

New Member
Going off topic here, but do anyone actually use web directorys. I use to browse Eoin's it-directory & search.ie to find irish sites, but is there is so many people putting them up, is there a market for them?
 
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