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jason

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I have a fairly strong software dev. background and (am rather naively at this stage) interested in developing my own Ecommerce software to integrate in to various web applications I develop. Those systems can be anything from shops to online services, etc. I am aware of systems such as Zen Cart, osCommerce, etc (bloated Shopping Carts), but to be honest a shopping cart isn't necessarily what I'm looking for either, it's more specifically the ability to facilitate electronic payments.

I have looked at the likes of PayPal integration and Realex (which seems like €thousands to get going), and I want to make sure that I am not naievely leaving something out. When taking Euro payments from people primarily located in Ireland, what is my best payment gateway option. I don't expect anything more than a few dozen small payments per day for now.

At a basic level if I develop a system and I can derive a total amount to be charged to someone, take credit card details, and pass those to a payment processor, check payment status, then what else is there? Now of course I have to invoice my customer, etc, etc, etc, but in terms of payments what else do I need to be able to do. The process seems quite simple in concept, and I can see the various options available to me, but I can seem to ignore the fact that it's only the big players that seem to be doing this sort of thing themselves and leaving ordinary developer Joe on the ground the less elegant solutions of using some bloated open source system.

I know that you would need to be able to offer refunds, etc, but surely that sort of functionality is merely invoked through code hooks to your payment processor. The reason why I ask is that I am in the process of developing an online service that I want to be able to charge customers for, electronically. I don't want big "Payment Process" banners or Iframes, or redirects, etc in the system. The system is a web application (ajax'ed interface, etc) and I would just like to be able to process payments myself and am not afraid of the challenge as long as I know all the facts.

Am I being naive? If so what do you suggest I do. Also Realex seems to be the best in terms of the level of transparent integration, but they seem to be so expensive for setup, running costs, etc. especially when my estimated turnover isn't that high for now.

I have already spent quite a lot of time over the last year looking in to this sort of thing but I feel like I could be walking off the edge of a cliff without knowing it due to ignorance.
 

mneylon

Administrator
Staff member
You might need to talk to an accountant or pick the brains of someone who runs an online shop ...

A refund also has to generate credit notes / memos etc.,
 

davedave

New Member
Hi Jason,

I have read your post 3 times but I am not really sure what is the question you are asking.

Are you looking for a method of taking payments on your website that is fully integrated so you do not redirect your customers to an external site to make payment?

I know that you would need to be able to offer refunds, etc, but surely that sort of functionality is merely invoked through code hooks to your payment processor.
Payment Processors will provide you will an interface for making refunds usually referred to as a virtual terminal. I would recommend using this option as it is the safest.

If you can provide more specific questions then I am sure I can help you further.

Dave
 

jason

New Member
Cheers for the replies. Sorry Dave for not being clearer in my original post.

What I am proposing is custom in house developed web based software that will either talk to the Payment Bureau or the PSP. I don't want to use the likes of OSCommerce or ZenCart, etc. I would like to develop my own software that can pass/receive XML messages, etc to/from the payment gateway. The reason why I feel that I'm being naieve is primarily because I have never implemented an E-Commerce solution for a website before and just wanted to make sure that I knew what I would need to develop in my own software to handle the day to day running.

Basically this is what I want...
My own website (100% developed by myself), which includes the actual web interface/hosting/domain names/software that can ask the user for their credit card/laser details, and charge an amount securely to those cards. If I need to perform a refund, that I will be able to do that also. At no stage during the transaction I want to leave my own website. I simply want to perhaps make an ajax call from inside my own site that would securely pass the necessary information via XML or whatever to the payment processor and receive a response.

As I was saying before I don't imagine there will be significant volumes of payments needing to be processed for now. To put a figure on it, I would estimate approx €40 - 80 perhaps at most a dozen times per day. I was looking at some of the options available to me and SagePay seem reasonable at only £20 per month. I know I need a merchant account and <sarcasm>I'm sure our very helpful banks (AIB/BOI, etc) would only be delighted to offer me one with compeditive rates</sarcasm>. I was looking at AIB's merchant services on their website, and it offers me no useful information. Does anyone have any idea how they operate or what sort of charges I would expect if I went with likes of SagePay and AIB as my acquiring bank.

I know I also need to sort out SSL certs and a fixed IP for my site on my host. I already have hosting for the site, but want to add SSL capabilities.

@davedave (or anybody for that matter): If you can offer my any advice I would very much appreciate it.
 

davedave

New Member
Hi Jason,

I think I have a better understanding of what you are trying to do not. Thanks for the explanation! All of the payment service providers will provide an interface where you can take the card details on your web site pass them onto them for processing. Typically the integration method is an XML service.
Based on what you have described in your previous posts I do not think this would be a problem for you to implement.

Personally I would not bother to implement the refund functionality in the application. There are 2 reasons for this:


  1. All providers will provide you will an web application where you can carry out refunds, they will be responsible for the security of this system. If you implement the ability to execute refunds into your site you have got the additional worry about security. If you site was to get hacked then someone could refund large amounts of money from your account.
  2. Is the value gained by having a fully integrated system that allows you do do refunds worth the cost of developing this? I would argue it is not unless you are expecting a high volume of refunds.


I was looking at AIB's merchant services on their website, and it offers me no useful information. Does anyone have any idea how they operate or what sort of charges I would expect if I went with likes of SagePay and AIB as my acquiring bank.
You will one fee to your payment service provider to use their service and another to your acquiring bank for the internet merchant account. My website has a guide for setting up online payments which has a section on internet merchant accounts and also a costs & fees section. Take a look at this and if you have any specific questions I will be happy to answer them for you.

I would recommend giving AIB MS a ring and they will provide you with their pricing information.

Dave
 

jason

New Member
Wow - cheers Dave, nice site, great resource ;)

I agree with you 100% on the refunds method. I didn't realise that the PSP gave you a web app to perform refunds, that's ideal. If I was to build in refunds to my own app it's something that my customers would never see, so from that perspective it's not that desirable, now that I can access that functionality elsewhere. I also don't expect many refunds, none requested so far anyway.

The service I want to receive electronics payments for is a very small new business venture and has been operating manually for the past few months. Automation is definately required, but I hear that banks are really not in a position to offer IMA's to such small ventures. I can't seem to find guideline prices on your site, can you tell me what sort of money one could expect from our local banks. I was considering just using PayPal, but then what about the "settlement period" and how can I transfer funds from my PayPal account in to my bank account. Also I don't like the way that your customers would clearly see that it's paypal that I'm using to manage payments as opposed to using an XML approach and keeping things more transparent. Is it true that you no longer need a paypal account to pay via paypal?

It would be fantastic if I could just receive payments through the site and have the funds deposited directly in to my [acquiring bank] business account.

I really appreciate your help, thank you ;)
 

davedave

New Member
I do not have any pricing information on the site as this information is not publicly available. If you ring AIB MS or elavon they will give you an idea of the pricing. From my experience you would need either a detailed business plan or else your business would need to have a history of trading and audited accounts in order to get an Internet Merchant Account. Yes it is possible for people to pay via PayPal without having a PayPal account.
 

John Clarke

New Member
The service I want to receive electronics payments for is a very small new business venture and has been operating manually for the past few months. Automation is definately required, but I hear that banks are really not in a position to offer IMA's to such small ventures. I can't seem to find guideline prices on your site, can you tell me what sort of money one could expect from our local banks. I was considering just using PayPal, but then what about the "settlement period" and how can I transfer funds from my PayPal account in to my bank account. Also I don't like the way that your customers would clearly see that it's paypal that I'm using to manage payments as opposed to using an XML approach and keeping things more transparent. Is it true that you no longer need a paypal account to pay via paypal?
The fact that the site is up & live will make it a lot easier to get a Merchant Account from one of the Acquirers - they tend to have problems with eCommerce merchants who are not live yet (yes, there is a bit of a "chicken & egg" problem here - how can you go live without payments?).

I'm sure it's been pointed out that PayPal do not support Laser Cards, so if you are selling to a primarily Irish market, it's not the best solution (as spending tightens in Ireland, the Acquirers are seeing a big switch from credit spend to debit spend).

The pricing the Acquirers give you is very volume dependent - but it is always going to be less than the (4.5%?) that PayPal charge.

PayPal is a good solution to get a site up and running, but IMHO if you have any sort of volume of transactions (>5 a day), it's worth the time (& considerable effort) to get a Merchant Account set up.
 

BrianSP

New Member
I have been through the whole Paypal->Worldpay->Realex/AIB process.

First of all I would say you would be mad to not start out slow.
Why spend tons of time developing a super backend if you don't have the sales to justify the time spent?

Much better to spend the time to increase your sales!.

On that note, start with PayPal. Yes, they do charge stupid rates, but hey its fast to implement and it works.

At the moment we use Realex as our payment processor and have a merchant account with AIB, and it works great.

Fees are:
Realex : €79.00
AIB : 2%

On a average volumn of 50k per month. For you it might be higher (I think they mentioned 2.5% when we started, but got them to drop it down a bit)

Realex support (out of the box) Laser, Visa & MasterCard.
Forget amex, they don't have a clue what you are talking about when you ask them about doing online transactions + they want 4.5%!!. (For amex users we use paypal as a backup, if they don't have other cards that is)

Feel free to ask me any questions you might have,.

Note: Forgot to say that you can actually renegotiate the rates with PayPal depending on volume (think we got them down to 3% or 3.5%)

Regards
 

mneylon

Administrator
Staff member
Forget amex, they don't have a clue what you are talking about when you ask them about doing online transactions + they want 4.5%!!. (For amex users we use paypal as a backup, if they don't have other cards that is)
AMEX don't want to deal with Irish businesses from what I was able to gather.

AMEX market share in Ireland is very small anyway, but we would have quite a few non-Irish clients who have AMEX. Unfortunately AMEX don't seem to be in the least bit interested in facilitating us, so I gave up.
 
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